Stuck or Strategic: Knowing the Difference Could Save Your Career

Vimala Pydi[00:00]
Sure. Yeah, yeah. No worries. All good.

Joanne Skiles[00:01]
Okay.

Joanne Skiles[00:06]
Totally thinking, sorry. All right. All right.

Vimala Pydi[00:09]
Yeah, I'll get you.

Joanne Skiles[00:10]
Let's do this. Okay. hi everybody, welcome back. This is her career unplugged. And I want you to take a moment, like, picture this. You've been in your role for two years. You know the job. People respect you. Nothing is on on fire in a way that's worse than it is before. But every few months you have that little voice.

Joanne Skiles[00:35]
That says you should be doing something more by now. Is that voice right? It might be. It might also just be noise. So that tension is what we want to talk about today. I'm Joanne and

Vimala Pydi[00:56]
I'm Vimala and welcome to Her Career Unplugged

Joanne Skiles[01:01]
And today we are going to talk to you about stalling your career. Because sometimes the stall is strategic and other times it's just a stall.

Vimala Pydi[01:16]
With that, Joanne, let's get into it, right? What does career stall mean to you? I think we both have different perspectives, so maybe we'll start with you and what does career stall means to you? Yes.

Joanne Skiles[01:30]
Put the pressure rate on me. Okay. Yes. What c

Joanne Skiles[01:33]
career stall. the simplest way of what it means to me is that you're pausing, not saying that you're not doing your job, like not doing your job, but the fact is that you're not doing the hustle to get to the next step. There's a lot of roles that are like terminal roles. So if you're like a senior engineer, that might be the end. Maybe you don't wanna become a a manager. So you might just

Joanne Skiles[01:58]
Do your job and pause at that point because either family or just the want to continue on. That's what career stalling means to me. How about you, Vimela?

Vimala Pydi[02:13]
Career stall, I knew at different stages of my life, career stall meant different variations within my journey. When I had my daughter 20 years ago, career stall was something that I was good at my job, I'll do what I'm doing the best, but I'm not going to hustle, be as aggressive that I would normally be. Being a new mom, it felt like

Vimala Pydi[02:43]
I'll do my job, be the best, but I'm not going to do everything else that we need to do, like networking, going and speaking, thought leadership. If I think about my career now, 20 years after, I feel like I'm flexing. Just going back to the analogy of like, you're working out, you got everything that you wanted to do, you're trying different things, strength training.

Vimala Pydi[03:13]
or you're trying to like maybe do some running cardio. Similarly in my career, I did like development, I did the management, I did DevOps, I've been in so many different roles. Now I feel at this point of my life, I'm flexing, I'm comfortable where I am, I want to do the best. Being influential, I'm not going to just sit there and not do the best, I'm still going to be my best.

Vimala Pydi[03:42]
But I'm okay with it. am. I'm not going to hustle for promotions. If it comes organically, that's fine, but I'm not going to kill myself.

Joanne Skiles[03:52]
Yeah, I like that analogy. I'm gonna I like I like the running part of that, right? Because like I run, I'm not very fast. I can do maybe 10 minutes if I'm pushing myself, but comfortably

Vimala Pydi[04:06]
Mmm.

Joanne Skiles[04:07]
I could run an 11-minute mile. And working out wise, I'm like, you know what? I'm comfortable at 11 minutes, but I'm still pushing myself because if I got lazy, I would do 12. But 11 minute mile, running it.

Joanne Skiles[04:22]
Keeping yourself on track, keeping yourself honest. I like that. I'm gonna steal that for the career stall. I think yeah, I I I think about it, you see, there's a lot of different

Vimala Pydi[04:31]
Yeah, so right.

Joanne Skiles[04:35]
definitions of a career stall, right? And

Vimala Pydi[04:37]
Right, right.

Joanne Skiles[04:38]
and I think there's a key point that you hit there is that it does fluctuate depending on where you are in your career. So because you start it with like talking about.

Joanne Skiles[04:51]
your own stalling. Like is there a specific stall in your career journey that maybe you could share? I have one, but I want I wanna give you chance to talk first.

Vimala Pydi[05:02]
Yeah, the pressure is mine now. All good, all good. Actually, I do have a very good story that just came to my mind, which is different from what I shared before, not when I became a mom or not where I am right now. Going back to like a pivoting point for my career, I was at a company where

Vimala Pydi[05:31]
I did not agree with how things were done. Like I was really good. I was actually leading most of their initiatives within the company, but I had a disagreement with how things were done with my management specifically. But at that point, there were two options. Like there were days where I just felt like, I have to quit. I have a very tough manager. I'm going to quit today.

Vimala Pydi[06:01]
But on the other end, I thought I am providing my services to this company. I'm really good at what I'm doing. And I am aligning with the company's strategy as well. So I'm not like doing anything negative there. Why do I quit today? Like I am going to stick around, find another role, which I'm interested in, quit at my own, on my own.

Vimala Pydi[06:30]
terms as well. at that point, I felt like I was stalling in my career, just sticking around. I made the decision to move on, but I didn't want it to go and just like as you see in movies, like just put in my two weeks notice and get out. I'm like, I'm not going to do that or be out of job because I worked hard to be where I was.

Vimala Pydi[06:54]
So that's my personal journey. If I think about my career stall, like it was stalled for a months there, but I kept on. I was still hustling though. I was trying to find another role, but it's another way to kind of look at career stall. So yeah, I'm really curious on your story, Joanne. Like I'm pretty sure it's going to be a fun one and we all can.

Vimala Pydi[07:23]
Kind of thinking about ourselves.

Joanne Skiles[07:25]
So you're you're hyping it up a little bit, but but no,

Joanne Skiles[07:29]
I that's a good point. And mine's kinda similar in a way. Like, I just had my second son, all right. and I think actually for some people, and I I'll pref preface this, you don't need to do what I did, and I think I've always been hustling. So when I had my first son, I took

Joanne Skiles[07:52]
Three weeks off because there was no maternity leave. And then I worked from home. When I had my second son, I was daring. I took six weeks off. So I was a little burned out by this point in my role. I was a director of engineering. The company itself was just always, always, always, always on. And I needed to get out. And I knew I needed to get out. And

Joanne Skiles[08:21]
I took a horizontal job at another at another company. And I was a little frustrated with myself because I was I am I am the hustler and that's why I want to make sure people understand you don't need to be the hustler. And I was a little disappointed in myself because I was a director of engineering. So shouldn't I just get a VP of engineering role at this point? W why am I doing this? But I took it in and

Joanne Skiles[08:50]
realized very quickly one the director of engineering role was a perfect way to go into the company because you had to relearn the company and everything is different. So you are actually kind of resetting a little when you go to another company. And that stall was really important to understand the landscape. And I will say back now hindsight wise that was the strategic stall to wait and not completely

Joanne Skiles[09:19]
get promoted up because I think if I went up and tried to go for a VP, I would have crashed and burned the company. Not to say that the company didn't crash and burn. You guys will you could probably

Vimala Pydi[09:30]
Hahaha.

Joanne Skiles[09:31]
timeline all this out and figure out what company I'm talking about. But it was a smart move.

Vimala Pydi[09:35]
you

Joanne Skiles[09:37]
It was the right move to do.

Joanne Skiles[09:39]
And for my mental sake, mentality, like health, mental health, for my mental health's sake and my family's mental health, it was the right move to make.

Vimala Pydi[09:54]
That is a great story actually, watching out for yourself and align it strategically with career stall, right? Like that's a great point.

Joanne Skiles[10:08]
And and I don't think I think at this point, like, I'm

Vimala Pydi[10:09]
Going back.

Joanne Skiles[10:11]
telling one story, but I think there's been for both of us multiple pauses within our career of moments where you go, Okay, let's do let's not kill ourselves for this role. I don't need to do eighty hour work weeks, I don't need to do this because

Joanne Skiles[10:32]
For whatever reason it is, maybe taking care of a parent or a family, family member, or our children. And I think that's also part of like I can't even think of all those moments in my head of like the sixteen years for me of of a career journey of how many times I chose to pause for external sakes. And that's still really important.

Joanne Skiles[11:01]
Right. And

Vimala Pydi[11:02]
Ray.

Joanne Skiles[11:04]
and and my younger self didn't appreciate that, I will say that much. But and I think that goes into how do we how are we okay with pausing versus

Vimala Pydi[11:17]
Right.

Joanne Skiles[11:18]
stalling, right? Actually, if you guys hear here, we're calling it a pause, cause a stall it's a little bit different, isn't it? Right.

Vimala Pydi[11:31]
Right.

Vimala Pydi[11:34]
Yeah, just pausing. Like, again, I think I'm in this mode of kind of like in that fitness mode, trying to do like a good balance of taking care of myself. When you say pause, I'm thinking about my Apple Watch asking me to take a pause and breathe. Right? Like if I go back to that analogy, it feels like we all need this within our career journey.

Vimala Pydi[12:04]
And as you rightly said, we both have seen that both being seasoned technologists in this space to kind of take those pauses within your career is definitely healthy and is required. But just like your Apple watch notifications, you pause for a certain time and then reset and go back.

Vimala Pydi[12:31]
Right, Joanne, we did talk about it on how we have to be strategic about these pauses, not to just be complacent, like just be stalling there forever. That's not the message we are sending. It's just those strategic pauses in your career if you need be. One idea, like one other story I was thinking about as you're speaking, Joanne, is

Vimala Pydi[12:59]
When I think about my journey, there are some external factors that caused me to pause, whether it's taking care of my daughter, taking care of whatever other areas that I had to focus on in my personal journey. But there were times where I just needed time for myself to bring in my sanity.

Vimala Pydi[13:24]
You drive your career, you kind of take that lead within your career. And if you know, whether it's for your mental health, your physical health, or just taking care of yourself or external factors, if you have to pause, it's okay, it's okay to pause. Like you take the driver's seat, you kind of make that decision. And

Vimala Pydi[13:49]
Don't see it as a negative. Just look at it as a wrinkle in your journey. It's just something small. I don't know if that's the right term, but like yeah.

Joanne Skiles[13:56]
Yeah. No, you're you're you're

Joanne Skiles[13:58]
a hundred percent right because really in the grand scheme of things, like I'll talk from like my younger self where I felt that I was gonna absolutely dis I I was backtracked. Nine years ago, I got my PhD in computer science. And I was at this point in my career of a senior engineering manager and

Joanne Skiles[14:26]
I said, but I want to teach and try out being a professor. So I went and I became I I I interviewed, I took the career pivot, I took a 50% pay cut, okay, and became a professor at a university, because professors don't make a lot of money. and then COVID happened. And

Joanne Skiles[14:52]
And then my family, my my grandma was still alive right now, but like she was a health risk. The ideas at that point was like that if I went and started teaching physically at the university, I couldn't visit my mom. So then my because my mom was taking care of my grandma. And that was very hard for me. And so I went back to industry and

Joanne Skiles[15:21]
If you would say look at the paper, you go, wow, you went over to academia, you completely changed your career. You're gonna ruin your industry career. Me going back to industry, I became a director of engineering. Actually, me leaving and doing something different got me out of the stuck of a senior engineering manager to director.

Vimala Pydi[15:45]
That is amazing.

Joanne Skiles[15:45]
And so

Joanne Skiles[15:46]
those pauses, those moments where things happen, those those pauses are strategic, maybe not because you were thinking of the strategy at that moment. But I guess what I'm really trying to say is more so you cannot completely destroy your career unless you do something illegal. Okay.

Vimala Pydi[16:09]
True, yes. And I love where you said being strategic like you need to have that strategy. You need to know the why and you need to have a timeline and you need to kind of come up with a strategy on how you're going to improve it. Yes, definitely.

Joanne Skiles[16:30]
Yes. So and

Joanne Skiles[16:32]
I think that's a great point is even though I went to be a professor, it didn't mean that I was not involved in industry. I was still constantly learning. I at the time became an AWS community builder because I started creating content on YouTube. That's when I started my YouTube tutorial channel. Like all that happened while I was a professor, so I didn't pause on

Joanne Skiles[17:00]
not being involved in tech. It's very easy to remove yourself and become complacent. Right? So when you're taking your pause, you still need to be growing yourself.

Vimala Pydi[17:17]
That's that's a very important point. I think we were talking about it too before the episode and on not to coast, but to have this strategic pauses to kind of like reset at some point like have those timelines.

Joanne Skiles[17:37]
Right. Because if you coast,

Joanne Skiles[17:42]
If you've always been like the top engineer and then you start coasting, and I I I'm sorry, I'll always use engineering analogies, but for those who are not engineers, just you've always been the top of your group. So you get, you know, your performance ratings, whatever it is, one through five or exceeds expectations. But if you never change yourself, other people are still going to grow. So if you decide to coast, you have to understand that coasting might not be

Joanne Skiles[18:09]
enough and usually it isn't enough because you're not growing yourself. So eventually your super exceeds expectation, becomes a, gosh, they are a problem. And we need to start talking about letting them go. And that's a scary part of the pause. So don't be complacent in your pause. You still need to realize and be aware of what's going on around in the world so you're not left behind.

Vimala Pydi[18:36]
Yep. That's a great point. And being in the industry, I think these are the lessons learned that we went over how you can be strategic when you're coasting, what are the indicators you would have to look for and have a timeline to reset. So look for all those pointers, the messaging that we want to kind of like give out to our audience today.

Joanne Skiles[19:05]
Yes.

Joanne Skiles[19:06]
So when you pause and and I know this is a very different topic than what we've talked about before. We've we've had conversations around like, just do it, you know, you're not ready, but you gotta do it anyways. But the reality is sometimes sometimes it's I need to see I need to pause. Be it a baby or a family member or just just the hustle is too much. But yes, so you look for just

Joanne Skiles[19:32]
you when you pause, you still need to be aware of what your peers are doing and where you stand amongst your peers. not so much to be maybe the best person in the group, but don't be don't be a slacker in the group like that.

Vimala Pydi[19:51]
That's

Vimala Pydi[19:51]
it. Yeah, you you kind of hit the nail. Don't be the slacker in the group if you're doing the best and still like coasting. But what Joanne has shared with us if you're a community builder using other revenues to be relevant, you're OK. But as she said, don't be a slacker for sure. Yeah.

Joanne Skiles[20:18]
Yeah.

Vimala Pydi[20:18]
That's

Vimala Pydi[20:19]
a great point to make.

Joanne Skiles[20:22]
And then that pause, that pause that you chose to do will not ruin your career. I wanna I wanna say that I wanna say that very clearly to anybody that was the that's what I needed to hear when I was in my twenties was it it's not gonna ruin your career. You can't you will not destroy your career off of pausing. That's fine.

Vimala Pydi[20:46]
Awesome. So with that, do you have any final point to join? Otherwise, we'll go into a fun category.

Joanne Skiles[20:56]
yeah. Yeah, let's Yeah. Let's go let's go

Vimala Pydi[20:58]
Let's do it. OK, alright.

Joanne Skiles[21:00]
back to saying though with that let's go into rapid fire.

Vimala Pydi[21:03]
Yes, with that let's go into rapid fire rapid fire is a fast fun and little proactive provocative session of ours. Our podcast. I'm going to ask some questions will take a minute and join. We can kind of like use this questions and we both can answer since we don't have a guest today.

Joanne Skiles[21:28]
Mm-hmm.

Vimala Pydi[21:29]
Alright. So let's start.

Vimala Pydi[21:32]
You've been in the same role for three years, but you keep getting good reviews, stuck or strategic.

Joanne Skiles[21:39]
That's a tough one, right? Like, I would say you are stuck if you were not if you don't feel like you are stretching yourself. So if you don't feel uncomfortable, which means you're not been challenging yourself a little bit, it doesn't matter that you're getting good reviews, you are stuck. But if there's something else going on, an outside factor of why you have been there, then it's strategic, right? So only I know I'm breaking the rapid fire rule on question one.

Joanne Skiles[22:09]
So most likely stuck unless there's an external factor.

Vimala Pydi[22:16]
Yeah, on my

Joanne Skiles[22:16]
All right.

Vimala Pydi[22:17]
on my side I think it depends right? Like I just wanted to give like a one liner there. It depends if if you're a strategic, it's your game plan. You're good, but if it's happening organically without any strategic plans then now.

Joanne Skiles[22:33]
Yeah. All right. You passed on an opportunity because the timing wasn't right. Stuck or strategic.

Vimala Pydi[22:43]
Definitely strategic because the timing was right and not right, right? Like the timing may not be right because you have external factors. You're just being aware of your mental health or you just want to take a breather. Totally strategic. You're passing on that opportunity because the opportunity came to you. It means you're doing all the right things and you're going to definitely go back reset at some point.

Joanne Skiles[23:13]
Yeah, I mean sometimes you get an opportunity where they want you to talk in two weeks and that's just not realistic.

Vimala Pydi[23:20]
True, true.

Joanne Skiles[23:23]
You're allowed to pass on an opportunity and not kill yourself just because the timing wasn't there, right?

Vimala Pydi[23:32]
Going on to the next one, you know you want to move, but you're waiting to see if the internal promotion comes through first, stuck or strategic.

Joanne Skiles[23:43]
You're stuck. You are stuck.

Vimala Pydi[23:45]
I.

Joanne Skiles[23:47]
You are stuck. You are someone is dangling a carrot in front of you and they're keeping you there. Do not fall

Vimala Pydi[23:53]
Yes, exactly.

Joanne Skiles[23:55]
for it. Like the promotion will come, and if it doesn't come, then you need to start looking and be strategic and leave.

Vimala Pydi[24:04]
Exactly, plus one on that. I have the same answer.

Joanne Skiles[24:09]
All right.

Vimala Pydi[24:09]
Ha ha ha.

Joanne Skiles[24:10]
You stopped raising your hand for new projects because you already have too much on your plate. Stuck or strategic?

Vimala Pydi[24:17]
Definitely strategic. That's one of the episodes we did cover that as well. Learn how to say stay no and if you have too much on your plate, you definitely are being strategic by not raising your hand.

Joanne Skiles[24:33]
Yes, a hundred percent.

Vimala Pydi[24:37]
Alright, next one. Good one. Actually, you haven't updated your LinkedIn in two years because you're not looking stuck or strategic.

Joanne Skiles[24:51]
I know this is like a love hate for LinkedIn for people. I will say you are stuck. Okay? and this is I this is something I've gotten on a friend just recently. She has not updated her LinkedIn in like seven years, 'cause she's not looking. But now she needs to look. And now she has a LinkedIn that hasn't been touched for seven years. And unfortunately,

Joanne Skiles[25:17]
LinkedIn is a necessary evil in the world of job hunting, a at least in in my industry. So

Vimala Pydi[25:25]
Yeah, I think I have similar answer. If you're in tech industry, I know a lot of people don't like to be on the social networks, but LinkedIn is necessary if you want to be relevant within tech industries. Other industries, it depends, may not be as influential as tech, but in tech, definitely you're stuck if you're not updating your LinkedIn profile.

Joanne Skiles[25:53]
All right, you took a lateral move to a team that interests you more even though it doesn't look like a step up on paper, stuck or strategic.

Vimala Pydi[26:03]
Strategic going back to the initial conversation we had. It your flexing. It depends on where you are at your career. You're laterally moving because it interests you. That's that's flexing for me.

Vimala Pydi[26:23]
Alright, the next question you said no to a speaking opportunity because you didn't feel ready, stuck or strategic.

Joanne Skiles[26:32]
Okay, so that one, you're stuck. You just got asked to speak. And so they're asking you, that means you're ready. So don't let those little demons talk to you out of it. That's that's my answer there.

Vimala Pydi[26:48]
Last one on that. When I first saw that question, I didn't see because you didn't feel ready. I think that's the pointer. But otherwise, if there is a speaking opportunity, you have too much on your plate saying no is OK. It's strategic. But if you feel you're not ready, then you're stuck. I agree. Last one.

Joanne Skiles[27:05]
Yeah, that that's just

Joanne Skiles[27:07]
that's that little voice in the back of your head that tells you things that you shouldn't be listening to that voice.

Vimala Pydi[27:12]
Yes,

Vimala Pydi[27:14]
totally agree.

Joanne Skiles[27:17]
Alright. Last one. You have a candidate comes in for an interview and you see that she's been in the same role for over three years. Is that a negative? Is she stuck?

Vimala Pydi[27:33]
The way I see it, it's definitely not a negative and I do do a lot of interviews and when I see people moving a lot, I may have a question. I may ask them like, hey, why are you moving a lot or why did you have a break? But I never stuck to me as a negative when people come in and they are in the same role for a couple of years. That's not negative.

Vimala Pydi[28:02]
at least not my end.

Joanne Skiles[28:04]
It's not to me, it also gives me a little answer of probably why they're interviewing at the same time. I mean,

Vimala Pydi[28:09]
yeah, true.

Joanne Skiles[28:11]
if you've been in the same role for three years and the company is not giving you the opportunity to move up,

Joanne Skiles[28:18]
I mean more power

Vimala Pydi[28:18]
very true.

Joanne Skiles[28:19]
to you. You're finding your opportunity. And that's what's important. So

Vimala Pydi[28:21]
Yes. Yeah.

Vimala Pydi[28:26]
Definitely not struck. All right. So thank you so much. And that concludes our episode today on career stalls or pauses. Please let us know if you have your own story or journey. We are on LinkedIn. We are on YouTube. Please subscribe to our YouTube channel. You can also put your comments in within LinkedIn and YouTube to share your story.

Vimala Pydi[28:51]
or you can listen to us on any of your platforms. Go to hercareerunplugged.com and you can listen in on any of the platforms that you usually listen to. Please definitely subscribe on YouTube. Until then, stay authentic, stay curious, and stay unplugged.