The Paths We Took (and the Ones We Didn’t

[00:01]
Welcome to Her Career Unplugged. My name is Vimala Pydi. I'm joined here with my co-host Joanne Skiles who is going to give her intro in a moment. This is a podcast for everyone out there who are in their career and looking for their career uh looking to create their playbook. This is going to be a 15 to 20 minute bite-sized very concise career paths from women who has lived through this path in their career and in different industries. Every episode is designed to give you some takeaways. The goal is to provide you some takeaways from our guests, from ourselves. That way you can build your playbook. All right, with that Joanne, take it away.

[00:48]
Thanks, Mima. I'm Joanne Skiles and I'm the director I'm the director of engineering and also an AWS community builder and user group leader. And between all that I also am juggling side projects, my two crazy boys that are seven and four. I've worked in tech for over 15 years and sometimes I like to stop counting. And that's been across full stack engineering leadership and along with that community building. And even though you might look at my LinkedIn, you go, "Wow, that's a really straight climb and a very natural process that's happened." But that's not the case. I mean, yeah, I did a m a bachelor's, a master's, PhD, and I went from software engineer to a director, but along that path, it wasn't really linear because every behind every little title change was a pivot or a detour or a moment of doubt that I had to push through. And it's in these moments that when Vim and I and I were talking with our many sidear sidebar conversations that we realized that these are stories that we tell each other, you know, when we're not running a meetup and the cameras are off. But we as women deal with this within our career and this is what other women need to hear and that's why we are here. So back to you Vimla.

[02:10]
Thank you Joanne. I'll do a quick intro of myself too. So as I said my name is Wimla Paidi. I'm a seasoned technologist. I've been in this industry over 22 years. I I know it feels a lot but there are a lot of learnings, lot of wrinkles throughout my career journey. I wanted to start with a quick intro. I have a very unique story. I did my undergrad back in in India. Came here back in 2000. I was part of that whole dot crash. So I it was really hard to find a job but I was ready to do take on anything. I started as uh at a daycare. I was a assistant teacher for the babies which helped me in future taking care of my daughters. So I do have one daughter who is in college right now and I am in we both are from Orlando, Florida here. Uh so a very nuclear small family with husband and a daughter and a dog. So fast forward when I was working at daycare I I am an engineer. I did my undergrad in engineering. I really wanted to get into tech space. So in parallel what I did is I went and upskilled myself through certifications. Those times it was Oracle PL/SQL certification. That's one of my first and also went back to school to get my master's in computer science. After that it was maybe about doubledigit interviews I was able to find a job in tech space. So it was not linear. I I had my struggles to get my first job. And right now I am working as a solutions architect global strategist for migrations at AWS. So it's um a lot of learnings which we will talk through in our episodes as we go through this. But first we'll start with a quick Q&A session. Um, thank you Joanne for the introduction and uh that kind of wraps up my intro to you. So let's start with a quick Q&A. All right. So I'll give you a second to think through as well. So what's one thing you thought that was required for your success but turned out not to be? If you want me to repeat so that you gather your thoughts. What's one thing you thought was required for success but turned out not to be? you know, education, right? I I and I know that's probably a little weird for people to hear, but uh I did mention earlier I have a PhD in computer science and I really thought like if you there is no reason for me to do horrible at a job if I, you know, got the terminal degree. So, no one's going to question me if my name is Dr. Skiles. The joke is everyone questions me all the time. So that and they should you should question someone. Don't don't fall for the oh I'm really highly educated and therefore I get everything right. The joke no one gets everything right and the people who think they do are probably the most wrong. Just so yeah that's what I really thought like in order to be extremely successful in this career I needed a huge amount of degrees but you don't. And some of the most successful people I know actually don't even have a college degree. And I think that's really important to be said is like it's more about your character and your willingness to learn. Be that with degrees or no degree. It's the ability to adapt, grow, be curious, and try learning. At least that's what I see as the one thing I thought was required for success when I was younger, but it's learned now. It's not the case.

[05:56]
Okay. I want to have a disclaimer here if my daughter is listening. Go to college, finish your degree,

[06:03]
both.

[06:03]
Yeah. No, just full disclosure like my kids have to go to college, right?

[06:08]
No, no, I agree what you're getting. Like even if you did your college in some other path, you can always pivot, right? Like that's the other um takeaway. Yep.

[06:19]
You're not stuck in the field that you majored in. you know, if you majored in finance and tomorrow you go, I'm going to be a software engineer, you totally can.

[06:30]
And I think the opposite way works as well.

[06:33]
It's just the willingness to learn. So maybe I guess the asterk next to it is that education maybe in a piece of paper is not 100% required for success, but your ability to learn and be curious is required for success.

[06:52]
Yeah. Actually, a follow-up question. I know you you you're always really uh upskilling yourself and you're high on your learn and be curious. Maybe like adding that would help our listeners, right? Like, okay, I don't have college, but what do I need to get into a space that I like? um if you can share a story like I know you're always upskilling on like if you don't have a degree how how can you get into any of the spaces that you like maybe tech space

[07:24]
tech space tech space I think is a lot more accessible than you know what it used to be in the past is if you really want to get into tech any idea it does not need to be like oh and so what I say is like you make a GitHub profile and you make a repo go and you start learning how to code and you learn in public. Build in public. Talk about what you're building. Sure. Maybe the first thing is making a website for yourself. And now you're learning HTML, you know, like and it's really simple and then you go, "Oh, I have an idea. I want to make like the other day I was getting frustrated with Firefox because it was missing a dark mode for a viewer that I use. So I started making a extension for Firefox to turn it into a dark mode. Really simple script, but that moment of just like putting yourself out there, making some visible projects, that's how you're going to get yourself into that space.

[08:27]
Yeah, that's a great takeaway.

[08:30]
All right, so you quizzed me enough. I'm going to quiz you on a question.

[08:34]
Have you ever had a moment where you thought I don't belong here?

[08:41]
Yeah. Um that's as women I think most of us can relate to it. We always uh especially with me I always feel I'm surrounded by really brilliant, brightest and smartest people in the world. I always feel or maybe second guessess myself and I have to tell myself that no I'm I'm here because I have proven myself to be here. I have like everything that I can um my work experience, my upskilling, my certifications, my previous projects that kind of helped me to stay here. That's a really um big problem that I felt or a challenge throughout my career where I kind of second guess myself. I feel I may not be the right person or I'm not at the right place. I'm just here by luck. But that's that's a voice inside me that I always have to kind of like shut down and kind of go with the actual uh pra like actual data that kind of proves me I'm here because of this this this. So that's a very good question and something that we have to really dig deeper into. Uh I know imposttor syndrome is something that we use a lot in this industry especially in tech. Maybe we have to in future do a deeper dive into that uh Joanne but yeah I I second guess myself but right now I have a formula to kind of shut it down.

[10:17]
Does I guess really maybe does it ever go away?

[10:24]
Um I don't think so like to to just be transparent here. It never goes away. it I always have that second guessing uh built into my nature especially at work uh which never goes away because I don't see much of especially in the work that I do I'm a solutions architect I'm the only one in the team on the team right now but I've seen that pattern throughout my career in my 22 years it it's just one or two of us in the room so it always comes I get into this mode of second guessing ing myself maybe because I don't see too many of women in those uh conferences or meetings or um any of my interactions. I do have to like as I said I kind of like try to think logically and put in those data points into my head too where I say okay no I can do I'm worth it I'm going to do this in the way that that I learned throughout my career. So yeah. Yeah,

[11:32]
let's do a few more questions. I have another question for you. I know you have done a lot of mentorship in your roles, but you might have gone um and had a mentor in your previous roles too. So, a question in regards to the mentorship, what role did mentorship play in your early career or did not play? Like you might not have had a mentor in your early career.

[11:57]
Um so, what role did they play or not play? No, I that's a wonderful question because in my early career I feel it was very isolating and I know that's probably why I'm so involved in the community now because I did not have that in you know 2008 2009 area coming into my first job and working in defense and it being a very man group and you were kind of just expected to just go. And I didn't really have any mentorship. And I I don't I'm not blaming the companies that I worked for, so don't think it that way. Uh it just wasn't there. Um I did have some good peers though. Um so I had some good peers and we were able to at least commiserate together and talk through talk through our own concerns together as a as woman in tech and being like the only two women in the team. And I think that helped a lot. and kind of also showed why I value community so much now because I kind of needed that at least pure support group

[13:10]
uh to ultimately I don't know if it was the right well it was the right decision in hindsight right but it was one of those pivots in my life where I was like I don't want to be in defense anymore so um yeah I guess really for my early career the lack of mentorship really I guess for good or bad depends on you listeners uh shaped who I am today to be very involved in the community and give those opportunities to others that are early in their career.

[13:41]
Yeah. Do you have any uh um specific experiences of people who had mentors? I know you mentor a lot of people too. the way it might have helped them.

[13:54]
Like for for my own personal mentoring those early in the career is just for me it's just talking through like this is natural the self self-doubt is natural not knowing if you like the role if you like tech in general. Um sometimes it's just talking through and having someone who's been through it before talk through and say that this is normal. Um there's also of course mentors for that are more specific towards like what should I start learning in order for me to become a full stack developer? Should I learn you know should I put myself through the torture of learning Python or not? Right? Like that also is really helpful to have that sounding board as well of a mentor to be to be uh like going through it like there's so many different ways of how you should utilize and get a mentor. Like I would say like if you have the opportunity and you have two people that want to be your mentor, use both of them. All right? Because they're going to have two different opinions and then you get more uh more experience under your belt. So

[15:01]
yeah, that's a good good uh point there, right? Like having the mentor and if there are multiple you'll get diverse um kind of views on any problem that you have. So that's a good point. Yeah. Thank you.

[15:14]
All right. One more question for you then. All right.

[15:16]
All right.

[15:17]
What's one decision that shaped the direction you shaped the direction you didn't expect?

[15:25]
Yeah. In my career, there are a lot of every day we have to make a lot more uh decisions. But one thing that stands out to me was when I was working I I was working at a company A and was applying for jobs outside just because I wanted a fresh start. in a different technology and when company B I don't want to name the company's names but when company B offered me a position it was very interesting when I went in for the interview the people who were supposed to interview me didn't know what they were interviewing me for so I went in for an application architect position and they were asking me everything about database so in terms they're completely different and if you're looking for application architect ask asking questions on database architect is interesting so they were not very tailored or I think they were going through a huge transformation so they didn't know how many people they wanted um not streamlined on their interview process um but I went in and took that position anyways like I went through different rounds of interviews. They kind of quickly understood that I was in there for an application architect. Um so they did kind of like bring me in for another interview which went well and when I was making the decision I was kind of torn between whether to take it because I know they're going through a huge transformation. It's pretty green field like there looks like a lot of newer people. um which means a lot of at at that point I was a new mom so it was like going to be a lot of stress too so I didn't know if I would be able to juggle it but I took it anyways and that was the best decision I made I went in it was green field but I was able to learn a lot and kind of go into different verticals understand like if I want to pivot that was like my area where I could do pivot I went in and became a devops manager leading like other areas. But I feel like that was my good decision that I made which totally changed my career trajectory.

[17:50]
That's that's awesome. I mean honestly cuz making those type of decisions are so tough because there's so much unknowns at least at least personally for me. I like to like lay everything out and like want to create that like there's obviously this is the right decision. So, it's always tough when it's like so many unknowns. I think that's really actually honestly very brave.

[18:13]
Yeah. Yeah. You'll never know, right?

[18:15]
Never know. All right, let's get unplugged, which means rapid fire questions, short answers only. All right, you ready for it?

[18:26]
Yes. Yeah. This is going to be the best part of our podcast. We are going to be unplugged. We'll do a rapid fire and we'll do short answers. So, let's do it. quick answers, maybe even a little controversial. Joan, so let's not think too much. Let's hide away. So my first question for you, one thing you would ban from tech job interviews. Whiteboard coding for problems you would never solve on the job, like inverting a binary tree and I stare at you.

[18:55]
Good one.

[18:57]
What's more underrated, soft skills or knowing when to say no?

[19:02]
I would say when to say no. I am terrible at it. I would love to be on it like when to say no to get like good balance of life for you. Best advice you ignored and wish you hadn't.

[19:17]
Actually I have early in my career was told I was too aggressive and maybe I was a little too aggressive early in my career.

[19:26]
We'll leave that as a teaser for a next podcast, right?

[19:30]
Yes. A mistake you made that helped you grow.

[19:34]
Saying yes to uh something that no one wanted.

[19:40]
That's another podcast.

[19:43]
All right. Question for you. Leading with empathy is uh the only way to lead.

[19:52]
Okay. Yeah. Yep. All right. Most I I actually really want to know this one. Most overused buzzword at work.

[20:01]
I have it for you. It's agentic AI.

[20:08]
Oh no, we're going to make our listeners already mad on episode one.

[20:15]
All right. Um, most stressful. Your first tech talk or your first outage?

[20:22]
First outage, we were losing tons of money.

[20:26]
Yeah. Yeah, I know.

[20:30]
Okay, you asked me about best. How about worst career advice you've ever gotten?

[20:37]
Yeah, I we have to do a podcast on this. So, when I wanted to do AI in the beginning, they said, "You're a woman. You have to cook. You have to take care of your kids. Why do you want to learn something new?" So, that's the worst.

[20:51]
That's horrible. And that's horrible. That's like what 20 20.

[20:56]
Yes. That's ridiculous.

[20:58]
24. Yeah, 24 maybe. But yeah, early early when AI was getting there.

[21:04]
All right. Question for you. Very controversial. IC or manager? Like individual contributor or manager? Who has it better?

[21:14]
Oh, I'm going to get everybody mad. The IC's have it so much better.

[21:24]
Okay. What's more useful, learning Kubernetes or going back to the other question, learning how to say no?

[21:35]
I think you already have my answer. Learning how to say no.

[21:40]
But the Kubernetes group is going to be very upset with that. I mean it is useful but for me for my career for my balance of life learning how to say no.

[21:56]
All right for you what's harder negotiating a race or parenting during a Zoom call.

[22:03]
Uh you know after parenting through many Zoom calls during COVID I will say parenting through a Zoom call is far harder than getting that raise. I Yeah, I hear you.

[22:16]
Okay, last one. What matters more for success? Timing or talent?

[22:24]
That's a good one. Uh I know it should be rapid, so can I say timing and talent? Timing. Timing. I would say timing. I think I would say timing.

[22:35]
Yep.

[22:35]
I agree. I agree. I know that's hard for others to hear, but there is a lot of luck involved in success.

[22:42]
Yes. Your talent of course matters and creates that look,

[22:46]
right? That is true. You need to have talent, but talent doesn't mean that you're guaranteed to be where you want to be, right? The timing is important, too. So, yeah, that's why I was debating between both or just focusing. But yeah, that's a wrap. This this is just a beginning. Thanks everyone for joining us as we kicked off of Her Career Unplugged.

[23:11]
Yeah. And if you enjoyed this, make sure that you uh follow and share us uh and share as well. So follow us on LinkedIn uh and then are subscribe to our YouTube channel as well, please. And hey, what's your career pivot moment? Feel free to write it in the comments, tag us on LinkedIn and share. Let us know. We want to know.

[23:36]
Yes. And in our next episode, we are driving into a big one. Imposttor syndrome. We are going to uh talk to our guests and we are going to talk about imposttor syndrome. We all face it. What are some of the tools that we can use to kind of get over it?

[23:55]
So until then

[23:56]
stay curious,

[23:57]
stay curious. Stay bold.

[23:59]
Stay unplugged.

[24:01]
Stay unplugged.